| Ivo Skoric on Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:21:02 +0200 (CEST) |
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| [Nettime-bold] Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money? |
France has nuclear weapons of its own. America does not engage countries that have nuclear weapons. Well, at least it never did - Pakistan might be the first. Also, France is a part of the Western civilization, i.e. "our ways" - it may be often at odds with the U.S. but it functions within the same paradigm. To its credit the U.S. is remarkably tolerant and will let its opponents in peace on most occassions. After all, it is hard to imagine that any other country would let a confirmed terrorist, that attacked U.S. on numerous previous occasions, live free for so long, as the U.S. did with Osama - Chinese and Russians would hunt and kill him as soon as he stopped being useful to them (1989), French and German would hunt at kill him after his first serious strike (1993), British and Spanyards would probably wait until the embassy bombings (1998), only the US needs to get really fucked up to drop the remote control and get up from the couch... ivo Date sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:25:27 -0400 From: "Marko Maglich" <MMaglich@ny.whitecase.com> To: ivo@balkansnet.org Subject: Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money? Okay. But we don't just strike at those who don't follow our ways. France would have been obliterated by now. --Marko >>> ivo@reporters.net 09/16/01 04:50PM >>> I didn't go off the deep end. Not yet. But some people already did. And what I am interested in is determining why they did it. I think that this is as much about them as much it is about us. I can't add much to your eloquent description of "them" - "these losers who want to be somebody, so they strike at the Empire to prove their non-existent manhood in the name of a god with whom they obviously have lost touch" - but I can try to supplant some thoughts about "us". Because, in all fairness, we do have to admit that the U.S. launched an attack against Sudan, destroying its pharmaceutical plants, that it killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the Gulf War, and that it resorts to the "tomahawk diplomacy" as often as the former British empire resorted to the "gunboat diplomacy". I am not even taking a moral stance towards it - like I am not speculating whether the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia was a humanitarian intervention or not - I am merely stating the fact that it happened. The U.S. talks to the world from the position of power. The world that we live in is bereft with economic injustice, where some are born losers. While I don't think that the U.S. is a cause for global economic order - it is the home of most of the multinational corporations that directly profit from it, and it is also the home to the military that is first to be called upon to protect that order. I think that terrorism is as a natural phenomenon within that paradigm, as a diabetic ulcer is in the body striken with diabetes. ivo Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:40:21 -0400 From: "Marko Maglich" <MMaglich@ny.whitecase.com> To: FrodeauxB@aol.com, ivo@balkansnet.org, nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money? You really think we go around striking "those who refuse to accept its ways"? I think you've gone off the deep end. I don't think that's what the allies resent. I think it's a far cry from resenting the fact that we haven't signed on to a few treaties. Let's not draw the wrong lessons from this. We simply have been added to the list of victims of these losers who want to be somebody, so they strike at the Empire to prove their non-existent manhood in the name of a god with whom they obviously have lost touch. I do love you though. We will get through this. I'll talk to you Monday. Got a funeral to go to tomorrow. Love, Marko >>> ivo@reporters.net 09/14/01 01:50PM >>> This, of course, is not my problem, man. It is, however, true that despite numerous hints, the U.S. behaved as it cannot be hit and hurt by its enemies, trusting in its ability to strike from afar - with precision, yet unscathed - those who refuse to accept its ways. There is no secret in that many people, including American alllies, on the other sides of both oceans viewed that as arrogant stance - whatever you might chose to prefer to call it. Of course, the U.S. now paid heavy price for that, and this is probably the beginning of a new era - but we shall see will it be better, more humane, peaceful, just and free. ivo Date sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:17:31 -0400 From: "Marko Maglich" <MMaglich@ny.whitecase.com> To: FrodeauxB@aol.com, ivo@balkansnet.org, nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money? "American arrogance is most definitely humlbed." [sic] What is your problem, man? >>> ivo@reporters.net 09/11/01 12:33PM >>> Bush daughters, caught twice for underaged drinking, got a clean record after doing 8 hours of community service, attending anti- drinking classes and paying $100 fine. $100 is nothing for them, but it might be a lot for somebody making $6 an hour... Again, this is just a silly, minor example of how the rule of law may convey injustice. It is this feeling of injustice and the feeling of helplessness to prevent that injustice, that breeds anger, rage and hate, and ultimately it breaks out in irreversible acts of horrific terrorism. It is true that Palestinians were and still are victims at the hands of the world. And the routes for them to obtain redress are clogged on purpose for a long time. So, for a quite a while they resort to terrorism, including suicidal terrorism. Of course, nobody quite expected such a massive, well co- ordinated and, unfortunately, highly succesfull attack on the land of the law, such as happened this morning. September 11th will perhaps be remembered in the world's history, because I can't imagine world ever be the same after today in regards to fighting terrorism. I am obviously afraid that citizens will have to put up with even more curtailing of their freedoms to assure their safety. Because - how could terrorists simultaneously hijack four large airliners at four different airports with such a tight security as it is in the U.S.? And the precision with which the planes hit the targets suggests use of suicide pilots. I guess, Manhattanites may understand this morning how Sarajevans felt in 1994 - all bridges and tunnels to New York city are closed, the underground public transportation is shut down, my telephone gets dial-tone only sporadically, cell phone service went down with the two largest buildings in the city that collapsed after being hit by hijacked passenger airplanes. The bomb threats are still in the air. Hospitals in the city are overwhelmed with hundreds, thousands of injured. All airports in the U.S. are closed down. All trade exchanges are closed down. UN, World Bank, Capitol, White House, Treasury, State Department and Pentagon (that was also hit and badly damaged) are evacuated. American arrogance is most definitely humlbed. The war has never been that close to the U.S. since their Declaration of Independence. And the Space Shield would do absolutely nothing to protect the U.S. from such an attack that came from inside and was executed by the tools of American corporate business, used against the symbols of American economic and military might. New York is never going to be the same - I am sending you the picture with the WTC twin towers - you try to imagine the picture without them - it is like Mostar without the Old Bridge. And, I guess, my mom who is coming to visit me in November, will not be able to get on top of them to get the view of the city. Stay at home or at your place of business. If you are on the street - walk straight North. That's for now from mayor Giuliani. ivo This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of t his communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error b y replying to the e-mail or by telephoning (212) 819-8200 during the hours of 9:30am - 5:30pm (EST) . Any other time please call (212) 819-7664. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. Th ank you. This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of t his communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error b y replying to the e-mail or by telephoning (212) 819-8200 during the hours of 9:30am - 5:30pm (EST) . Any other time please call (212) 819-7664. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. Th ank you. This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of t his communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error b y replying to the e-mail or by telephoning (212) 819-8200 during the hours of 9:30am - 5:30pm (EST) . Any other time please call (212) 819-7664. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. Th ank you. _______________________________________________ Nettime-bold mailing list Nettime-bold@nettime.org http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold