Re: <nettime> more provocations

[Jack Jansen <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl>]

Okay, I know we shouldn't start discussions here, but I simply couldn't let 
this one pass by. I won't post on the issue again, discussion by private email 
please. 

Richard:
>> Anarchism is neo-liberalism for hippies.

and when asked to explain:
> I thought that this position is clear from my remarks about the ultra-left
> posturing of the 'zero-work' demand. In Europe, we have real social problems
> of deprivation and poverty which, in part, can only be solved by state
> action. This does not make me a statist, but rather an anti-anti-statist. By
> opposing such intervention because they are carried out by the state,
> anarchists are tacitly lining up with the neo-liberals. Even worse, refusing
> even to vote for the left, they acquiese to rule by neo-liberal parties. 

Sorry, if you believe that the problems of deprivation can only be solved by 
state action you have a very naive view of the state. First, these problems 
were *caused* by the state in the first place (which has for all practical 
purposes taken over the role of the Big Bad Capitalists in the 19th century). 
Second, the state couldn't care less when 10% of the population lives in 
poverty. 50%, okay, they'll start to care. Any less: big deal, those people 
don't vote anyway, and even if they could find work they wouldn't contribute 
significantly to the GNP, so let them rot.

About voting for the left: sorry, there isn't any left anymore. There's fringe 
parties (and I consequently vote for the fringe SP here in Holland), but the 
social democrats in Europe are just conservatives with slightly different 
priorities. Once the social democrats start seriously contemplating raising 
taxes (especially on things like stock, and possibly a tax on all financial 
transactions) and spending *real* money on wellfare/heath care/education in 
stead of just upping the budget with 5% to cover the damage the conservatives 
did in the last government: great, then I'll contemplate voting for them.

I agree with your point that opposing *anything* done by the state just 
because it is done by the state is silly, but I know very few anarchists who 
hold that view. Hey, I don't care for religion, but if a church helps illegal 
immigrants I'm all for it. It's the end that counts.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


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