[Nettime-bold] Re: Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with CBS

["Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>]

Top Bush administration officials - from Cheney on Meet the Press 
Sunday, to Rumsfeld today on CBS (below), keep using the phrase 
"we have to drain the swamp." 

I agree it sounds misguiding that they are preparing for a war in a 
dessert while taking about draining a swamp. I guess they liken 
terrorists to mosquitoes and the best way to get rid off mosquitoes 
is to drain the swamp where they breed - it is very difficult to kill a 
mosquito with a gun - but we also know that some swamps are 
impossible to drain... True democratic changes in Saudi Arabia 
would drain the swamp where Bin Laden's followers breed - but are 
the Saudis and their US backers ready for that? 

ivo

ps - to some people who thought of aligators - yes, aligators also 
live in a swamp, but you are safe from them unless you go 
swimming in a swamp - mosquitoes will attack you far from the 
swamp, and you won't even notice until you get mallaria

btw - the swamp-draining urge might have come from this Israeli 
journalist:

Brilliant article by Uri Avnery, brilliant suggestion by Alex
Levine

                             Twin Towers

					Uri Avnery
				A Israeli Journalist
15.9.01.
	After the smoke has cleared, the dust has settled down and the
initial fury blown over, humankind will wake up and realize a new 
fact:
there is no safe place on earth.
     A handful of suicide-bombers has brought the United States to a
standstill, caused the President to hide in a bunker under a far-
away
mountain, dealt a terrible blow to the economy, grounded all aircraft,
and
emptied government offices throughout the country. This can 
happen in
every country. The Twin Towers are everywhere.
     Not only Israel, but the whole world is now full of gibberish about
"fighting terrorism". Politicians, "experts on terrorism" and their
likes
propose to hit, destroy, annihilate etc., as well as to allocate more
billions to the "intelligence community". They make brilliant
suggestions.
But nothing of this kind will help the threatened nations, much as
nothing
of this kind has helped Israel.
     There is no patent remedy for terrorism. The only remedy is to
remove
its causes. One can kill a million mosquitoes, and millions more will
take
their place. In order to get rid of them, one has to dry the swamp 
that
breeds them. And the swamp is always political.
     A person does not wake up one morning and tell himself: Today 
I
shall
hijack a plane and kill myself. Nor does a person wake up one 
morning
and
tell himself: Today I shall blow myself up in a Tel-Aviv discotheque.
Such
a decision grows in a person's mind through a slow process, taking
years.
The background to the decision is either national or religious, social
and
spiritual.
     No fighting underground can operate without popular roots and a
supportive environment that is ready to supply new recruits, 
assistance,
hiding places, money and means of propaganda. An underground
organization
wants to gain popularity, not lose it. Therefore it commits attacks 
when
it thinks that this is what the surrounding public wants. Terror 
attacks
always testify to the public mood.
     That is true in this case, too. The initiators of the attacks
decided
to implement their plan after America has provoked immense hatred
throughout
the world. Not because of its might, but because of the way it uses 
its
might. It is hated by the enemies of globalization, who blame it
for the terrible gap between rich and poor in the world. It is hated by
millions of Arabs, because of its support for the Israeli occupation 
and
the
suffering of the Palestinian people. It is hated by multitudes of
Muslims, because of what looks like its support for the Jewish 
domination
of
the Islamic holy shrines in Jerusalem. And there are many more 
angry
peoples
who believe that America supports their tormentors.
     Until September 11, 2001 - a date to remember - Americans 
could
entertain the illusion that all this concerns only others, in far-away
places beyond the seas, that it does not touch their sheltered lives 
at
home. No more.
     That is the other side of globalization: all the world's problems
concern everyone in the world. Every case of injustice, every case 
of
oppression. Terrorism, the weapon of the weak, can easily reach 
every
spot
on earth. Every society can easily be targeted, and the more 
developed a
society is, the more it is in danger. Fewer and fewer people are 
needed
to
inflict pain on more and more people. Soon one single person will 
be
enough
to carry a suitcase with a tiny atomic bomb and destroy a
megalopolis of tens of millions.
     This is the reality of the 21st century that started this week in
earnest. It must lead to the globalization of all problems and the
globalization of their solutions. Not in the abstract, by fatuous
declarations in the UN, but by a global endeavor to resolve conflicts
and
establish peace, with the participation of all nations, with the US
playing a central role.
     Since the US has become a world power, it has deviated from 
the
path
outlined by its founders. It was Thomas Jefferson who said: No 
nation
can
behave without a decent respect for the opinion of mankind. (I quote
from
memory). When the US delegation left the world conference in 
Durban, in
order to abort the debate about the evils of slavery and in order to
court
the Israeli right, Jefferson must have turned over in his grave.
     If it is confirmed that the attack on New York and Washington 
was
perpetrated by Arabs - and even if not! - the world must at long last
treat
the festering wound of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is
poisoning
the whole body of humanity. One of the wise guys in the Bush
administration said only a few weeks ago: "Let them bleed!" - 
meaning
the
Palestinians and the Israelis. Now America is bleeding. He who 
runs away
from the conflict is followed by it, even into his home. Americans, 
and
Europeans too, should learn this lesson.
     The distance from Jerusalem to New York is small, and so is 
the
distance from New York to Paris, London and Berlin. Not only
multi-national
corporations embrace the globe, but terror organizations do so, 
too. In
the
same way, the instruments for the solution of conflicts
must be global.
     Instead of the destroyed New York edifices, the twin towers of
Peace
and Justice must be built.



Date sent:      	Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:06:50 -0400
Send reply to:  	International Justice Watch Discussion List
             	<JUSTWATCH-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:           	Laura Rozen <LauraRozen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:        	Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with CBS
To:             	JUSTWATCH-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU

Top Bush administration officials - from Cheney on Meet the Press 
Sunday, to 
Rumsfeld today on CBS (below), keep using the phrase "we have 
to drain the swamp." 
does anyone know what that means? 

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   INTERNET:dodtranscripts-l-request@DTIC.MIL, 
INTERNET:dodtranscripts-l-request@DTIC.MIL
DATE:   9/18/2001 11:35 AM

RE:     Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with CBS Early Show

NEWS TRANSCRIPT from the United States Department of 
Defense

DoD News Briefing
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Tuesday, Sept. 18, 2001 - 7:06 a.m. EDT
(Interview with Bryant Gumbel, CBS-TV Early Show)
     Gumbel:  The nature and timetable of the U.S. response is, of course, still being planned.  Do
nald Rumsfeld is the administration's secretary of Defense.  He's in Washington.
     Mr. Secretary, good morning.
     Rumsfeld:  Good morning.
     Gumbel:  I don't know if you just heard Richard Roth's report from Pakistan, but he noted that
 the foreign minister, while reiterating his pledge of support, says the U.S. could help its case b
y releasing evidence to convince skeptics of bin Laden's involvement.  Does that make sense to you?

     Rumsfeld:  Well, let me say two things about that.  First, the United States is approaching th
is in a measured and steady manner.  We are gathering all the information that's appropriate and we
 are beginning the process of following the president's instructions, which are really literally th
e only way to deal with a problem of terrorism like this, which is a worldwide problem, and that is
 to go after terrorism at its roots.
     That means to deal with terrorists and deal with the countries that harbor terrorists.  You ha
ve to do that, because there's no way to defend in a free society.  Terrorism strikes at what we ar
e.  We are a free people.  That's what we as a people are.  And terrorism tries to deny that freedo
m.
     Now, does it make sense to begin releasing intelligence information?  Of course not.
     Gumbel:  Pakistan right now is, as you know, trying to convince -- the world is trying to conv
ince the Taliban leaders in Afghanistan to surrender bin Laden.  Could all conflict be avoided, or 
does it go deeper than that, if they surrendered bin Laden?
     Rumsfeld:  Yes, bin Laden is one person who is unambiguously a terrorist.  The Al Qaeda networ
k is a broad, multi-headed organization.  If bin Laden were not there, the organization would conti
nue doing what it's been doing.  So clearly the problem is much bigger than bin Laden.
     Gumbel:  So what, then, is the motive for the Taliban to extradite bin Laden?
     Rumsfeld:  Well, clearly you begin on a journey with one step, and he would be one step.
     Gumbel:  Mr. Secretary, you have said, in talking about this war, that it'll be a war fought i
n the shadows.  Could you expand on that for me?  What does, to your mind, "in the shadows" mean?
     Rumsfeld:  Well, this is a -- this 21st century phenomenon is so different for the United Stat
es.  We're used to dealing with armies and navies and air forces, with ships and guns and planes.  
In this instance, the terrorist organizations don't have those kinds of capabilities.  They have a 
very different kind of capability.  They're determined.  They are patient.  They are well-financed.

     They are functioning all across the globe.  They're not just in Afghanistan.  They're in -- ju
st this one organization, Al Qaeda, is probably in 50 or 60 different countries, including the Unit
ed States of America.  They don't have high-value targets that we can go after.  So what we have to
 do is to recognize what they are and deal with them as they are.
     Gumbel:  So as we prepare to fight this war, what is it we should be prepared for?
     Rumsfeld:  Well, we certainly can expect that there will continue to be terrorist acts.  They 
have publicly stated that they intend to do that.  We also have to find ways to deal with that netw
ork.  And one of the ways to deal with that network is to drain the swamp.  These terrorists don't 
function in a vacuum.  They function in a country.  And countries foster and facilitate and tolerat
e their behavior, and that's got to stop.
     Gumbel:  Mr. Secretary, final note.  As you continue to make your preparations, are you feelin
g any pressure to act soon while emotions are still running high?
     Rumsfeld:  You know, there is a quiet anger in this country, but the country is unified and th
e Congress is unified.  And indeed, the world community is increasingly unified.  And I think what 
the pressure to do is to do what's right, to root out terrorism at its source and to do it in a mea
sured and purposeful and steady way.
     Gumbel:  Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.  Mr. Secretary, thank you, sir; appreciate it.
     Rumsfeld:  Thank you.
-END-

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